Friday, 19 December 2008

Another Embarrasing Shambles,,,,

Another Embarrasing Shambles,,,,

Yet again at last nights Council meeting we were treated to the experience of none of the senior Members or Officers apparently knowing what they were doing.
Casting my mind back to the last shambles, that was the meeting where we discussed the China Gateway application, when a Member called for a recorded vote none of the Officers nor the Chairman were able to say how this should be carried out. It was left to the Chairmans chauffer to supervise the process. Now I dont know why I should feel uncomfortable and a bit embarassed about this but I do, probably because it refelects badly on the Council as a whole and as a Member of the Council I am tarred with the same brush.
So back to last nights debacle, during the course of discussion on Cabinet reports to Council Dave Green wanted to move an ammendement as is his right but the Chair then took what passes for 'advice' from Officers and a five minute delay ensued while they debated among themselves whether he could move his ammendment or not, it was finally decided that he would be 'allowed' to put his proposition. When he had finished speaking further confusion reigned as it now seems that the collective senior members and Officers are unable to understand English and couldnt make out what he had proposed, despite the fact the he had informed the Cabinet Member a couple of days beforehand.
We then moved on to the next item that was to add to the list of roads in Thanet where unauthorised trading is prohibited. A simple enough exercise you would think ! The first cock up happened when the Cabinet couldnt decide whose Portfoilio it was in, I would have thought that common sense dictated that you sort out who is speaking on what BEFORE the meeting and not at the time. The net result was that Sandy Ezekiel stood up and proposed the changes, I had agreed to move an addendum on behalf of the Labour Group and duly gave notice and stood up to move it. During the course of my speech there was sage nodding of heads from the Tory benches and murmers of hear,hear, when I had finished speaking I sat down feeling quite pleased with Myself as my speech had apparently been quite well received. Sandy Ezekiel then stood up and asked Council to reject my ammendement. I was a bit miffed at this as quite clearly the Leader of the Council hadnt understood the difference between an ammendement and an addendum although I had quite clearly said that we accepted the changes and they should happen I was asking for an additional action to happen. When I pointed this out the addendum was allowed.
After this we went on to discuss training for Members of the local Standards Board, while I have no problem with training for Members the proposal actually says that unless a Member has had the training they wont be allowed to serve on that Board.
Now in a democracy that seems to be completly undemocratic and flies in the face of the basic fact that elected representatives for better or worse should reflect the community they represent and not be forced to follow the 'training' that tells you what you can and cant do. Although there are possible legal consequences of a Standards decision they should be pointed out at the time of considering a decision. This has already been introduced for the Councils Licensing Committee, there are also moves to make 'training' compulsary for the Members of the Planning Committee.
In my opinion these moves are deliberatly designed to remove Members from the decision making process and further emasculate us. When challenged, usually by Labour or Independant Members the Officers who tell us that we " have no choice" are actually unable to point us in the direction of the peice of legislation that tells us we " have no choice" but the Tory majority go weakly along with this thus further eroding our effectivness and ability to influence events and policy.
This of course is typical Conservativism, a do nothing, make no decision, play it safe way of thinking then they cant be blamed when something goes wrong.
Every decision the Council makes should be guided by the Constitution and that is why it is important that every Councillor should understand the Constitution and more importantly the Rules of Debate that we work under so if any training is needed should be aimed at those who hold office as Members and senior Officers who's job it is to advise those Members.
What we have at the moment is a shambles of a Constitution, senior Officers and Members who dont understand it and Junior Officers who havnt been trained in its implementation and most back bench Members who havnt a clue about it either.
That is one of, but not the only reason that the Council is currently seen as a complete dogs breakfast.

p.s. I have just got off the phone to TDC's Planning department who tell that although I want a planning application in my Ward to come before the Committe I have to have 'planning grounds' for that to happen. As I understand my role as a Councillor it is to represent the veiws of my constituents regardles of their race, colour, creed, voting intention, background or expertise in planning grounds, I just want to go to the Planning meeting and say my bit on their behalf but now apparently I have to be an expert in planning law as well.

27 comments:

Anonymous said...

We need Jerry O'Donnell

Anonymous said...

Ramsgate First is a non-party political organisation.

RAMSGATE FIRST - putting the people of Ramsgate first

Anonymous said...

Ramsgate now has its own Town Council and at last we can address the failures, stupidities and incompetences of the last 35 years under the misrule of both Labour and the Tories.

Bertie Biggles said...

I am seriously concerned at the perception the general electorate has of our Council and this post seems to outline further incompetence in managing Council business when meeting in Full Council.

Is the business of 'training' a device to ensure that the Standards consideration of matters that are to be examined in January is thus 'null and void' in advance?

Training was not an issue at Planning in August or when Full Council met in October to hear the China Gateway application, was it?

Whilst I believe that our Councillors should be 'trained'as much as possible in the intricacies of the matters their particular Committee deals with, the democratic imperative must surely apply; i.e. 'warts and all' they honestly represent their electorate!

Anonymous said...

"Amendment" please

Anonymous said...

Bertie Biggles you would be far worse than anyone if you had the power your secretly pine for. You are so democratic that you only allow posts on your blog that you agree with. No doubt you will now mouth off which is easy for you to do coz unlike the politians you won't say who you are (even though it is known) You are everything you claim to be against but far far worse

Michael Child said...

I can certainly see why the council are so reluctant to webcast their meetings, I will raise an official complaint that they haven’t after Christmas.

Bertie Biggles said...

14.43, as I have reminded you before, I have not had to send any posts to the 'ether' for months now on Thanetstrife and should I have to do so, I will state that I have done it. Where possible I include as much of the posting as possible.

I have no aspirations to represent and thus serve the people of Thanet in any capacity and have the greatest of respect for many of those who give up a great deal of their time to do so.

My best wishes to you.

Anonymous said...

The sooner we get rid of this Council and get people in who will listen to the people the better, how much more damage are they going to Thanet before they are voted out, we want another local electionj and get rid of this lot
Ezekiel,Latchford and all their disgusting chronies.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous
The majority of people obviouslly disagree with your bigoted view of the situation.If they choose to stand again, Clls Ezekiel & Latchford are all going to win because most people like them- Results speak louder than your nasty little words. We will also say good bye to this terrible socialist government.

Anonymous said...

'Most people like them' meaning Ezekiel and Latchford. Perhaps you could tell us who, apart from their cronies, 'likes them'? I've lived here a long time and have never heard a council criticised like this one at least, not since the bad old days of the Tories in the 1970s. Try travelling on a local Loop bus, (paid for by the government in large part)and asking people what they think of this council.

Please tell us one way they've brought credit to their positions. One way they've enhanced the area. One way they've created a Better Thanet. It's interesting how they claim achievements that are nothing to do with them but have been implemented by KCC or the government.

Wake up, they're an embarrassment to democracy and the sooner these two go, the better for us all.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous22 December 2008 08:31

You talk about democracy but it seems that you ignore the fact that the good people of Cliftonville East and Birchington North re-elected Cllrs Ezekiel and Latchford only last year.
So, I think your comment is the only embarrassment to democracy.

Anonymous said...

Bertie Biggles thinks that he is so omniscient

Anonymous said...

at least we pretent that we vaule democracy

Anonymous said...

Don't think we want to listen to Labour politicians, small time or big time, for a very long time i.e. the next generation.

Not content with destroying my small savings, investments, house value, pension hopes, et al, this pathetic excuse for a "politician" wishes to lecture me on the difference between an amendment (which he can't even spell), and an addendum.

Haven't you got anything more important to think about? And if not, why do we bother electing you?

Anonymous said...

Labour is the best - we might not be able to spell or even know our grammar but we care about the poor and unemployed of Cliftonville. At the end of the day that is all that counts.

Anonymous said...

And the poor and unemployed benefit from the government destroying their chances of a decent job and future? As well as 1932's savings, investments, house value and pension?

Anonymous said...

So, anon.14.36, you prefer a political party that famously said 'Unemployment was a price worth paying to halt inflation' and also, more recently, 'Let the recession take its course'.

Laissez-faire politics carried too far for many people.

Anonymous said...

The market was allowed to run without interference and no-one was prepared to stand in the way. So it was laissez-faire politics that got the country into this mess.

Hence 1932's savings, investments, house value and pension went down the pan, and the poor and unemployed lose their chance of a decent job and future.

Criminal neglect by GB and cronies?

ascu75 aka Don said...

hmmmmmmm I now know the difference between addendum and ammendement. I also know a lot about bitching and the marvelous way being called anonymous allows you to say what ever you like and not own up to the comments. Mike can you not ask the questions in writing ?

Ken Gregory said...

Mike well knows, that if he wants to 'Call' something in on planning, all he has to do is seek advice from a member who has an interest in planning.

ascu75 aka Don said...

Ken would that be akin to the old boys network

Ken Gregory said...

Don,
no, it means that Mike has stated that he has no interest in planning, but is happy to use the expertise of those who do

ascu75 aka Don said...

Ken just being a bit tongue in cheek with that comment. I can understand his frustration at the training issue but it can save a lot of peoples time if you know what your talking about. Not everyone even those elected to serve can know it all.......... with one or two exeptions of course.

Matt B said...

That explains a lot. My post last year on the consitituion had me saying "but they don't do that" on most pages.

I second Michael's proposition to complain about the lack of webcasting. I for one could use a good laugh and it sounds like the council in session would be hysterical (or deeply depressing).

(In a side note to Berty and Anon a blog is not a democracy but blogging as a whole is start your own if you want to have a say.)

Ken Gregory said...

Mike, You will be pleased to know that the application you have had a problem with is on the next agenda. (I have just found out)

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